User blog comment:LordJumpy/My opinions on the wiki./@comment-24057825-20130517230530/@comment-4845243-20130518221326

There are the long-term problems of the User vs CM relationships, and there are the specific examples. As of NOW… there are no specific examples. However, in the future, there WILL be because the long term problem of the User vs CM is still in effect. No one can effectively predict the future, but one can make educated guesses. Educated guesses are easy if the variables don’t change. In the past, the long term problem of UvsCM was around, and guess what, conflicts happened. Nothing has changed since then. The rules have barely been altered, and conflicts are still highly likely. This is well explained in a scientific equation, D=RT. If no one changes the Rate, or the Time, the Speed will not change. You seem to be exagerating the scale of the conflict between users and CMs. There certainly have been conflicts, and there may be in the future, but tensions between these groups have been deescalating. I'm sorry, but your argument is not very convincing... Mainly because the variables do change. Things have changed; that is where you are wrong. The rules have been fundamentally changed at the new wiki. No new chat moderators have been promoted recently, and conflicts between CMs and users are now rare. Why? Because thing have changed. You are wrong in your assumptions that these variables are concreate and unchanging. You seem to think you know what's going on, but if you really think nothing has changed, then you do not.

I was presenting these problems as current, because they are. In your mind, this is an ovvreaction because you see no specific examples, and are blissfully nonchalant about the long term problems. If you examine my messages carefully, I never said not to live in the future. I said not to live in the now. Stop misinterpreting my messages. You can just admit, “I’m too lazy to read what Aok says but I’ll argue with him anyway.” No, they are not. I am not "blissfully nonchalent" about the long term problems, and your ad hominmen contributes nothing (actually desptracts) from the credibility of your argument.

You're right. I made a typo, and I meant to say live in the present. My bad. It was a typo, not a misinterpretation, and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't jump to such hasty conclusions.

While it is true that I do not have the ability to predict the future, and I agree with your agreement that this wiki will continue to have problems, I highly disagree with your analysis that most of them are taken care of. Also, I am not arguing an effect, I am arguing a cause. My cause is that everyone here takes things too seriously. They don’t use common sense. My problem is here, and it is very real. It isn’t a specific example, it is a LONG TERM PROBLEM. This long-term problem of UvsCM has caused countless conflicts… I don’t think I really need to name any. While there appear to be no problems with Users and CM’s on the surface of this wiki, under the waves lurks the long term, waiting for another change to strike. If nothing is changed, the result will not change. If no one changes their cause, the effect will not change. You missed something I said. I did not say they are taken care of, I said they are taken care of for now.

Interesting hypothesis... But how do you actually know people take things too seriously? I don't, and many others don't... Instead, some accuse us of taking things to seriously because we ban or kick for things you wouldn't. But the opposite is true. We (at least me) don't take things as seriously, and think that a kick is not a big deal. So, someone has to refresh their screen. Big whoop. End of the world.

I'm not saying the above is your attitude, it's just pretty much the only argument that has been used to try and prove that I'm too serious. (And I actually took a poll about that, the vast majority said I'm not too serious. Although you may not have been talking about me.

Now, you keep describing the problem as User versus CM. That is actually an extremely vague and unhelpful description. That's like saying the Civil War's problem was North Vs South. That's not the problem, the problem is what makes then oppose each other.' You need to look at the root cause, the reason why there are conflicts between users and CMs.

But as I said before, you highly exagerate this problem. Chat is peaceful (and has been peaceful for a while) the majority of times. The actual problem that caused numerous moderator/user disputes was the inexperience and strictness of certain mods. Now, we haven't promoted any new mods in a while. There are no huge or numerous conflicts between users and mods.

So in essence, I think your "long term problem" is not a problem in of itself, but the effect of other problems— which are being resolved.

Look. In the past, the UvsCM problem started. It manifested itself in the many conflicts between the Users and CM’s. In the present, it is not as apparent due to the lack of short-term conflicts, but that does not mean it is not there. I’ve seen the present. I’ve seen the past. I don’t dwell on either. I dwell on the future. I am only expressing what I think people need to know, that without change, nothing will happen. This long term problem will stay, and the short term ones will start to appear. I have my full picture, but I’m not sure you do. As I already said, this hypothetical problem is the effect of other problems. A blank versus blank is not a problem in of itself. You seem to be suggesting that it is a law of nature that moderators must have numerous conflicts with users. (Sarcasm)

There will certainly be some conflicts, as long as there are trolls and users who violate policy; but the moderator side of the problem has been improving greatly, since we no long have so many inexperienced and strict mods (coughmeklintandalotofotherpeoplewhenwefirststartedcough) the conflicts are now at a minmal.

I am not ignoring the large picture, to the contrary. I am looking at the large picture, but it seems you are not.

And you are 100% right, "without change, nothing will happen." Full agreement. The only problem is, you haven't seemed to notice the change.

After finals

Looking forward to it.